In-Home Separation, One Year Point 2

[adinva]

That has to be a record for me. I thought that last thread would see me through real separation and mediation and filing, ha! So here's my new thread. And here are the links to my old ones:
Hoping Friends Can Return To Lovers
Hoping 2
Hoping 3
Hoping 4
Living With No Expectations
In-Home Separation, One Year Point

In the long, slow decline of my marriage, my H hasn't shown the slightest chink in his armour, not the least bit of remorse or regret. He has been guarded at all times against doing or saying anything that might give me any expectations that we might work this out.

I get long periods of quiet where he's not so stressed out, no longer yelling and complaining all the time, and we're doing better working things out like fostering our second dog and the issues that brought. Even that gives me hope because I see the potential for us to change our dynamics.

But last night H brought up needing a recommendation for a mediator. It's the first time that's come up since last July, but now with our state's required year of separation coming to a close, H seems ready to take the next step. I told him I would find mediation objectionable because I thought what he was doing is wrong. I think it needed to be said in case he thought with all the quiet and peace that I had come around to being OK with this. I needed him to know that I'm not.

Passive resistance is about all I will do though. He's on a path he needs to follow, and it stinks, but I cannot stop him. I'll split our stuff with him if he schedules the mediator appointments, and I'll let him divorce me.

But I am angry and sad at the waste. I have a very bitter taste at the thought that I'll need to be calm and agreeable presenting this to our kids, for their own good, as something we just couldn't work out.

I also catch in myself a growing animosity toward the friends who've helped him with a place to crash and moral support through this so far. We've vacationed together but I don't think I could stomach it this year as well as I did last year even though that was hard then too. Our sons will be going to camp together. We socialize with them over all the important family holidays and birthdays and know the parents and extended family well. And I just feel like some of the anger I don't express to H is bouncing onto them instead.

I've got to get a grip. I'm only in the middle of this process, I know there's a lot more DBing to go.

In all of this I have to say, the friendships made here and the 24/7 support and caring from the people here have been a godsend. I hope any newcomers who find their way here will stick around and post and post. We all try to bring out the best in each other, more than any other resource I found.

[cat04]

Just a quick note here, I posted on your last thread...

The animosity toward the friends, is understandable. It is a betrayl in a sense.

However, your H needs support through this as well.

While you may feel as though they have chosen sides, please try to keep that in mind.

Find the place in your heart that allows you to forgive them. You may never choose to be "friends" again and that is ok, but please try to find that forgivenss.

Holding onto the anger, and it isn't as misplaced as you may think, will simply lead you down a road that I hope no one wants to go...

and that is to Bittersville.

[adinva]

Hi Cat - you're a real friend to keep coming and giving such thoughtful advice. I copied your post over to my new thread so I could carry it on here.

So, I said, I don't care if we go to that mediator or another because I will find any of them equally objectionable, since I think what he's doing is wrong.

This is a very understandable feeling and I honestly hope that you didn’t say it to him. Because it is judgemental.

You may not agree with his actions, you may not like them, you may not want them, but they are not wrong. They are based on his feelings and we are all entitled to feel whatever it is that we feel.

Using the word wrong…was the old AD, I hope.

Telling our S that they are wrong, will simply push them away further and faster.

Yep, I told him I thought what he was doing is wrong. You're right, it was judgmental. In this world there is right and wrong. He's entitled to his feelings, and his thoughts, and he can think he can't hold this family together and survive. He can think I'm a piece of trash and you know what, he'd be right because to him I am. He can think and feel whatever. But it doesn't make his actions right and I will judge him based on my thoughts and feelings that allowing our marriage to end without lifting a pinkie to work on it is...Wrong to me. It might have been a mistake to judge him and maybe I don't have a right to, but to me it's very important to communicate that I still don't like this.

I should have said "When you do not attend any of our counseling sessions and when you avoid our home and when you look for mediators, I FEEL concern for our children and I FEEL very mad at you."

But anyway, I said it to him, and I'll have to take the fallout that it pissed him off and made him more set on his path, if that's even possible.

Sometimes I have bitter words for him intended to be scathing and leave him sorry.

Sometimes I meet his new woman and laugh and say, "of course it's ok for you to have him. Please, be my guest. He's your problem now. No, scratch that.

Scratch that, yes, you don’t want to say it. It’s ok to think it though and then let it go. Trust me on this, we have all had those vengeful thoughts. Those daydreams of saying every mean thing we possibly could to hit all those nerves within them and to punish them, as we feel they have done to us.

Let them be what they are, daydreams.

Yeah, thanks for your support, and I so appreciate that I'm not the only one who ever thought like this. And I won't say it. I won't.

When the time comes, and it will (whether you reconcile or D) that you get to say your peace, speak from a place of grace and dignity. From the place of love that you still hold in your heart (and always will I hope) for this man. NOT from anger.

I don't know, Cat. It remains to be seen what happens to the love I feel for him. It's been a struggle to hold it safe this year. I love who I thought he was, I love the life we built together and the fun we had. I do not love the robot-man who is running so fast from us. I feel some compassion for him, and I wish he could get help for what's haunting him. But we'll see. Our future's not written.

Do you think I'll ever get to a place where I can calmly tell my kids "Your father and I decided...and no matter what we both will always love you"?

Honestly, yes you will get to a place where you can talk about it calmly and you will know what to say at the time. It doesn’t mean you won’t show them your remorse, but I hope you won’t have anger to show them.

And don’t EVER use the words that you used to describe your feeling here. Again those are judgemental, critical, and suggest that we are not allowed to make our own choices, however destructive they may be without being “demonized” for them.

I don't know Cat. You are so kind and understanding. I think people do bad things and make bad choices, and I don't yet have a place where I feel you have a right to choose your job over your family and a right to break your promises and not be demonized. That's too strong - I don't demonize him but I think he's weak and cowardly and allowing his flaws to rise and his honor to sink. And I think that because I'm in the same place, the same home and life that he is, and it's hard but I'm making different choices. I'm not asking anything of him that I'm not doing.

I know, I'm venting and I won't be so judgmental overtly. But I think we can understand and sympathize and feel compassion while not giving everyone a free pass to take destructive action based on their feelings.

How do I both protect my kids and resist what my H is set on doing? I know I can't stop or control him, but I don't want to make it easy for him and I don't agree that he can't help himself.

You be honest. And believe me, this won’t be as easy for him as you think. He is still a human with feelings and he is hurting even if you don’t see it or he won’t admit it.

I feel like, if H says I can't help how I feel and I say "yes I understand you can't help how you feel here let me schedule mediation for us,"

You don’t schedule the mediation. Let him do it. He wants this, let him do the work for it.

You can’t stop him from doing it, and should not be surprised if he does or doesn’t, but you don’t have to be the one who initiates it either.

Thanks for all this, it's really helping me sort out my thoughts.

[quote=cat04][quote=Ad]We deserve better. We deserve a H and dad who gives half a crap about saving this little family we created.

Yup.

I've been waiting a year for some kind of wake up call to happen and it hasn't, because he spent the entire year not connecting with us, not participating with us, lying in bed with his iPad.


So, I do love him, and I believe I know him better than anyone, and I understand him better than I did before. If after my best efforts he needs to go, then he needs to go. But yeah, I'm angry about it right now.

What makes me feel a little better is knowing how far we were from what I needed, and how slim the chance that we'd ever get there. I need to be with someone who will hold me when I learn I might have cancer, not be out installing a computer for a woman. I need to be with someone who will comfort me when my uncle died and I was sitting alone crying, not make fun of me for it. I need to be with someone who will listen to how I want to be ML to, not get mad at me for being critical. I want to be with someone who is happy, not mad, to see me after work. I want to be with someone who builds me up, doesn't tear me down.

So yeah, I'm mad right now, that my H is not ever going to be that guy for me. I'm mad that I'm willing to work with what he can offer and be OK with it, and he's not.

The final message I want to give him right this moment isn't a loving one, it's a verbal kick in the pants as he heads out the door. I won't be so mad tomorrow, just having an emotional day.

I hope you are as mad today as you were yesterday. I hope you haven’t stuffed those feelings just yet so that you can hold it together and present the picture perfect image…

I hope you come here and vent some more, in a place where it is appropriate, where you can get it out.

Yes, I'm still as angry this morning. I'm actually letting tears fall in Starbucks (go ahead and say something, Starbucks guy, I dare you). And listening to Johnny Cash and the anger and resignation and strength in his songs matches my heart today.

I also hope that you are beginning to acknowledge that your anger isn’t all directed at your H. I hope you are recognizing that some of your anger is also at yourself. Actually most of it, IMO.

Where have you failed? Failed your H, yourself, your kids?

My threads are full of my failings. I grasped at anything and everything, from my choices to my behavior, to who I was when I married. If anything people tell me not to blame myself so much. But when the bomb dropped I have moved mountains to change, grow, heal, whatever I could find.

What is the verbal message that you want to give to yourself right now? I am willing to bet it’s about as nice as the one you want to give your H if you are really honest with yourself.

I don't know. I'm running out of steam. I'll get my old journal back out and think about that with my pen for a while later on.

I just worry that with the flip flopping that I do, I don't really know where I really stand. I don't really know what I want. I just know that I'll be ok when I get there, where ever it is.

What DO you want and need?

And are YOU worthy of what you want and need?

Until you believe that you are, you won’t receive it from anyone. Because you won’t allow it.

My kids' needs supercede mine right now. Knowing we don't get everything we need, my first choice is that we need their dad and my husband to work with us to create a better marriage and family and stay together. Absent that, my kids need a healthy mom to help them grow into healthy men despite this, or maybe because of it. I'm a better person now because of it. But with my kids' needs met, I will allow myself to give and receive emotionally in the future where it was hard for me before. I want and deserve it, and am capable of it.

A,

Some hard words and hard questions here, for a hard situation.

They come from a place of caring and concern as well as support. I hope you know that.

To steal a line from a friend...

the only way to do it, is through it. (nickle Brookie )

Thanks Friend. I like cats as much as dogs.

[ces67]

My kids' needs supercede mine right now. Knowing we don't get everything we need, my first choice is that we need their dad and my husband to work with us to create a better marriage and family and stay together. Absent that, my kids need a healthy mom to help them grow into healthy men despite this, or maybe because of it. I'm a better person now because of it. But with my kids' needs met, I will allow myself to give and receive emotionally in the future where it was hard for me before. I want and deserve it, and am capable of it.

Hey Ad, I see this moving you in a good direction. Yes, it would be better to have an engaged father & husband as an example to lead your boys. However, knowing you can provide, love, support, guidance and direction for your family is huge in realizing that on the other side of this, you can make this work. I really want for your M to be healed and your H to realize what he's missing. But I know that you will stand strong regardless. I hope you can believe this to the point of finding peace with the future. Feel the feelings, deal with them (and flip off the starbucks guy if you need to) then continue to stand with your head up knowing you have a wonderful life to live because its what you do with it.

(((Ad)))

[ces67]

^^^forgot to bold your own words. Sorry...

[adinva]

Thinking more about the free pass thing.

Arnold Schwarzenegger should be allowed to have an affair with his housekeeper, his actions are not wrong because he is allowed to feel horny and destroy his wife's trust and their family.

John Edwards
Bernie Madoff
George Huguely

My H's transgressions aren't as huge or as visible as these, but there are things that are judged, and rightly so because measuring your opinions against the general consensus of your community reinforces what is considered right and wrong.

But these people and my H are making bad decisions and hurting people based on their thoughts and feelings (and in some cases untreated mental illness) and that is NOT ok.

Friend, coworkers, neighbors won't judge my H because they'll never know what went on behind the scenes of our marriage. It won't be any of their business, and it won't really matter to them whose fault this was. But to me it matters, it's my business, and I have a right to my feelings about it. As still my legal husband and partner in sharing a home and family, it's my right and possibly my responsibility to share my feelings about it with him.

If it pushes him away, then expressing my feelings was a bad decision and harmful. If it opens his eyes and causes him to think more, then it was a good decision. DB says don't push him away. I don't know if I did. I won't be lecturing and harassing him, but I think it needed to be said this time.

[cat04]

Ad,

Wow, I suppose that we should also make mention of Thomas Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, James Garfield and countless others who had affairs.

I will agree that these people made bad decisions and hurt others.

I don't doubt that in anyway.

Does that make them bad people?

They should be condemned?

Because that is what you are saying.

And if that is the case, then I wonder why at all you even want to reconcile your M if your H is such a bad person?

And if you are constantly holding this judgement against him, he will feel it, he will know, and I have to wonder why he would want to reconcile with you to just have a life full of this hanging over his head...

Is there a free pass?

No. We all live with the consequences of our actions. Sometimes that is as simple as our own guilt, sometimes it is constant reminders of our mistakes, sometimes it is actually visible physical scars...

Do you think I'll ever get to a place where I can calmly tell my kids "Your father and I decided...and no matter what we both will always love you"?

Honestly, yes you will get to a place where you can talk about it calmly and you will know what to say at the time. It doesn’t mean you won’t show them your remorse, but I hope you won’t have anger to show them.

And don’t EVER use the words that you used to describe your feeling here. Again those are judgemental, critical, and suggest that we are not allowed to make our own choices, however destructive they may be without being “demonized” for them.

I don't know Cat. You are so kind and understanding. I think people do bad things and make bad choices, and I don't yet have a place where I feel you have a right to choose your job over your family and a right to break your promises and not be demonized. That's too strong - I don't demonize him but I think he's weak and cowardly and allowing his flaws to rise and his honor to sink.

First, thank you for calling me kind and understanding.

I haven't always been that way. At least not internally.

The way I read your words, wasn't meant that you were necessarily "demonizing" your H. However, personally, if I was trying to learn life lessons from you(like a child does), I would definately learn that it really is only ok to do what you need to do for yourself, without fear of judgement, if those choices fall in with the status quo.

What if one of your boys wanted to join a circus? Or wanted to rock climb for a living? Or decided he was gay?

Do you think he would feel comfortable coming to you and saying it?

Do you think he would decide that you wouldn't like it and not do it without saying anything at all or keep it secret from you?

I have learned to accept that people do what they need to do at the time. If their actions and words hurt me, I do my best to find a way to deal with that hurt.

For me, the bottom line in everything was, what kind of person did I want to show my S?

Someone who endured and was a matyr, but not necessarily a very "safe" person to disagree with...

Or someone who could look beneath the surface, find the love in her heart, and always be that soft safe place for him?

I provided shelter, safety, and a place to grow for him within my body for nine months. I continued to provide those things for him after he was born. As he has matured, the place for me to be able to provide those same things for him has become more emotional versus material, as it should.

My S told me about his first kiss. About his concerns that he was depressed and needed help. He talks to me about his career dreams and ambitions. I don't always like them, one of them I even forbid because it is dangerous, but if he chooses it, of course I will support it.

I don't always like the choices he makes. However he is free and comfortable to share them with me, knowing that while I may express my opinion, I will always love him and he will always be able to come to me, no matter what.

I then translated that into every relationship in my life (I hope )

It isn't up to me to judge anyone, I leave that to a higher power...

[workinghardguy]

We addressed why right away but kept it short. Literally it was "Sometimes moms and dads don't stay in love the way and husband and wife need to. That doesn't mean we're not friends or can't get along, but it does mean we can't be married to each other. It's not your fault. Nothing you did could ever make this happen. And nothing you do can change it. It is what it is. We don't like it, but we've decided it's what is best for mom and dad."

And there were no why's. Again, look through the lens of a kid. While they may not act like it, they assume their parents are all-knowing and omniscient. Therefore, while they may not get it, they assume you have a good why.

Later... after they have time to mull it over.. then the "why's" come. But right then... at least in my sitch... there were no more why's.

Since then the most why questions have come from my six year old son. In his world mommies and daddies always love each other. He can't get why that would change.

The older two... well, my SD doesn't have a single friend who isn't from a split home (or who never knew their dad). And both of them have ridden this rodeo before; though they were 1 and 3 the first time they rode it.

[BFloat]

ad, everything cat said.. i second! and everything you said.. sounds like it had come straight from my heart at some point. i felt it all.. even your comment about what you would say to OW.. i had run scenarios in my head of what i would have said if i ran into her...

i'm way tired from a night shift so i can't really think straight. i just wanted you to know that i hear you. (((( ))))

[Crazyville]

Adinva, just wanted to spend some time catching up on your sitch. You have been so gracious, in your sitch, to be able to share and post on other threads. I don't know how you're keeping it together. Your posts are so well thought-out, and though I'm not implying you're perfect, I can only aspire to live/love like you.

Sorry, your H is a fool. Yes, that was judgmental. I have a lot to work on.